The unsettling drama “Swallow Grass Snakes,” by director Pepi Ginsberg, follows Devin, the star of a recent viral sex tape, and her younger sister to the movie theater where they encounter a creepy fan. We asked Ginsberg how the project started, finding the right tonal balance, and working with her young cast…

1) Can you talk briefly about your background, and how you first got interested in filmmaking?

I went to school for writing and have been writing in many iterations for as long as I can remember. I have always watched, loved and consumed movies but my professional background is in songwriting. I wrote and recorded albums and toured a lot before I started to make films. My first entry point into filmmaking was through directing music videos and artist docs while at the same time attempting to figure out screenwriting. The whole thing kind of sucked me in and music took a backseat. From there I made a more narrative short, applied to graduate school for film and am now finishing up my coursework this year. 

2) What was the inspiration for this project, the first element that came to you, and how did you go about building up from there?

This short came about after a deep dive into the world of cam culture online. I had made a music video that dealt somewhat superficially with this topic and I was interested in going further. I wanted to know what happens to one’s relationship to their sexuality when it is mediated through the internet and consumed. I think the big question I was looking at was: what is the nature of the boundary that exists (or doesn’t) when you put yourself into the world through camming? I was also curious about how much control one has over her image as a content maker (which Devin is) and how much, once you reach a viral stage, is totally out of your control. It’s so complex! My partner also pointed me to a story about a young woman called Library Girl, who got into camming in her university library and was eventually caught. I thought a lot about how that affected this young woman and her family, and how she may be able to hold on to her sexual power in the face of societal condemnation or exploitation. 

3) What were some of the unique challenges of this project, in terms of how you painted your characters, and how you told Devin’s story? It seems like a tricky balance to find, showing these interactions that feel scary but also keeping it nuanced and believable...

It was challenging to try to get that balance right and make sure the characters seemed ‘themselves’, so that whoever watched it could make decisions about how they feel about Devin and Chris with my meddling. I’m so hopeful to build room for nuance and questions when painting fictional characters, and I like these two because they are hard to pin to the wall. In terms of navigating that space between scary and believable I tried to approach the story with the feeling that these characters were doing their best with what they had. I liked that in their moments of interaction they were at once failing and winning and I tried to have compassion for them like I would a friend, or at least a therapist! In addition to just the basic anxiety of getting somebody right I did a lot of research about camming, spoke with some young women who were in the field, and tried in as many ways as I could to get some interesting perspectives. 

Were there last minute changes to the script or the edit that addressed problems you were concerned with?

Not really. Or not that I can remember. I tried to do my due diligence with research because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t betraying anyone’s reality or cheapening their experience. Never totally possible but the intention and research was there. There were very early changes that had to do with location. It was supposed to be set in a laundromat but the theater became available to us for free- who could say no.  Other than that a lot of the problems got sorted out in rehearsals and much earlier in drafts of the script. 

4) Can you talk a bit about your cast - I love the presences / performances of each. How did you find them and what your working process with them like?

Yeah they’re the best, I love them! I love actors in general. I deeply admire their ability to go somewhere new and dirty and vulnerable in a non-private space. That’s sort of what did me in as a singer - I’m very inspired by their skill and courage. Jefferson White is a friend I met sitting in on an acting class that he was in. I thought he was brilliant and stalked him and eventually we became friends. I mean we naturally became friends ;) Gus I met through another actor friend, although it was a nice coincidence because I had seen her while searching around on YouTube and thought she was great but had no idea how to find her. She’s charismatic and nuanced and wise. Luca who plays her little sister is the sweet and freakishly talented non-actor daughter of a good friend. In terms of process it was mainly rehearsals. Luca and Gus were able to get some time together hanging out and getting comfortable at the location which helped their sister dynamic, I think. I wish we could have shot even more of them. Also we shot during a snowstorm which was very stressful but it probably helped! 

5) What’s a film you’ve seen recently, new or old, that you really loved and why?

Oh gosh, tough one. If it’s ok I’d rather list it because it’s so fun to pass things on. Sort of recently: Lilya 4-Ever (Lukas Moodysson - I think one of the most difficult movies I’ve seen, but amazing!) Fat City (John Huston - best drunk scenes), The Lovers on the Bridge (Leos Carax - how).  Unrelated (Joanna Hogg ) and I’m binging the Sopranos. 

Bonus Question) What’s next for you?

I just finished a short called Miss America staring Gus’s mom, actually! Her name is Constance Shulman, she’s also amazing. And I’m writing and working. 

Contact Info:

Website: https://pepiginsberg.com/

IG: @newagerealchange